Curse

Winterclaw · May 05, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I've been thinking awhile about SoH versus the conjure line of spells. Everyone seems to favor the conjures, and for good reason. However I think that SoH is a little under appreciated even if its somewhat inferior to the Conjures.

[Conjure Lightning]
Pros:
-More damage
-Only has to be cast once every 60 seconds, 72 if you switch to an enchanting set
-Doesn't constantly drain your energy
-Gives access to el spells like shock

Cons:
-Lengthy recharge
-Spell could run out at an inconvenient time
-Limited weapon selection (meaning you can only use a lightning weapon to get the most out of it)

[Strength of Honor]
Pros:
-Cast and forget (unless stripped)
-Quicker recharge time if it is stripped
-Allows you to switch weapons as you need to (sundering or vampiric vs armored targets, zealous vs casters, condition increasers when you are about to use a condition attack)
-Let's you bring along a resuable res and condition/hex removal

Cons:
-Greater energy loss (about 20 energy per minute not gained after its cast)
-Less damage
-Easier to interrupt

After looking at all of that, for PvP I would think that the Conjures would be the favorite as monks can remove H&C, repeated ressing not needed unless you suck, then it's useless, and you have slightly more damage and some energy saved. However I would think that for PvE wouldn't SoH be worth considering if you are going to bring a damage buff enchantment? That reusuable res would be using when pugging. Something like cure hex or mending touch would help out the monks in the party. Also the AI is bad enough that one extra point of damage doesn't really matter and you can get by without many energy required attacks.

BTW, as a PvEer myself would weapon switching in PvP be a valuable enough tactic so you can get the most time out of that deep wound or cripple or have the best weapon for the foe on hand? I know weapon switching is commonly done for casters but I don't remember hearing much about it from a warrior's perspective. For example when playing a crip-gash warrior I bring out a crippling weapon for the first attack, switch to a cruel for the follow-up, then return to my normal weapon.

FoxBat · May 05, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I know weapon switching is commonly done for casters but I don't remember hearing much about it from a warrior's perspective. For example when playing a crip-gash warrior I bring out a crippling weapon for the first attack, switch to a cruel for the follow-up, then return to my normal weapon.

I can maybe see the point to crippling, but cruel is silly. Deep wound is a spike condition, if they survive the spike and somehow deep wound is lingering longer than 15+ seconds or whatever gash is, then they either should be dead or your offense completely fails.

Usually warriors are more concerned with zealous, vampiric, elemental, and maybe sundering or furious mods. It's more important to allocate your slots to things that help you deal damage rather than lengthening long-lasting single-target conditions that get removed quickly. This is also true in PvE unless you are using epidemic/fevered dreams, in that enemies should be dying before your long conditions expire.

Now, for the actual topic. -1 energy can be a big deal so there aren't that many characters this will work on. You have to use a vampiric just to equal the damage you'd have from conjure. The only time I'd go for it is if the energy gain from a zealous weapon more than offsets the degen, like a Shattering Assault assassin for example. For warriors, even if the degen is offset in combat situations, 1 pip is very hard to work with on most builds.

If you can actually coordinate your AI/party at all, Strength of Honor is much better on some kind of support smiter. Heck you can have that AND conjure on at once then.

cellardweller · May 05, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

If I was going to run one in PvE, it would be S&H. You're not going to bring either in the strip happy zones so recharge/cast time isn't an issue. S&H allows you to use a vamp weapon, so damage isn't an issue.

To me it boils down to weather the 2x vs undead and convenience of not recasting all before each fight is worth the marginally higher energy cost. Of course, both pale in comparison to enduring harmony

FoxBat · May 05, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

To me it boils down to weather the 2x vs undead

I don't think Strength of Honor changes the damage type, or even has its additional damage count as holy. You need to add Judge's Insight for that.

Savio · May 05, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Put the SoH on a hero and use both.

Also, cruel mods suck.

Kale Ironfist · May 05, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

If you're going to take it in a PvE setting, I'd pack conjure on the physical, and have a smite monk pack SoH and buff the melee with it. By taking a conjure though, you preclude the use of Barbs and another weapon prefix.

Also, condition lengtheners aren't really all that useful for a Cripslash Warrior, since the conditions last so long already and the adrenal cost is low enough that you can re-apply it again, that you'd be better off continuing your use of Sundering/Vampiric/Elemental weapon mods instead.

snaek · May 05, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

[conjure lightning] is barely more dmg, if not less, cuz [strength of honor] is armour-ignoring dmg
and like wellard said, u can use a vamp weap (which also happens to be armour-ignoring)

the real prob wit [strength of honor] is that the energy hurts
and recasting it if it gets stripped is a serious prob

its better used for a smiter mainting it on a teamate imo

Savio · May 05, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

[conjure lightning] is barely more dmg, if not less, cuz [strength of honor] is armour-ignoring dmg

Conjures are armor-ignoring as well.

Axel Zinfandel · May 05, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Conjures are armor-ignoring as well.

Against certain enemies in PvE, it's a pain in the ass to use conjures because because it's less effective. Conjures are technically armor-ignoring, it's just the base element that isn't. I think that's what he meant :/

yum · May 05, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

How t3h RED ENGINE GORED can you spam frenzy and BS with -1 pip?

Also, weapon swapping is good if used correctly; otherwise, you just gimp your DPS.

Crom The Pale · May 05, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Strength and Honor really needs a buff to put it equal to the conjurs, as it is its very unlikely I would ever chose it over a Conjure.

The one exception might be if I needed the Condition Removal of a monk secondary or possibly a hard res.

Tyla · May 05, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Conjures.
It doesn't: Remove 1 pip. You also can run SoH on a hero, or another player for a big bang.
Although Conjures disable your ability to use a Zealous / Vampiric weapon, Strength of Honour makes your energy die fast.

zling · May 05, 2008, 11:56 AM // 11:56

S&H is only worth it on a smiter hero, prefferably Me/Mo
otherwise conjure is just better for both PvP and PvE
as for weapon swapping, changing from Crippling->Cruel->Vampiric is just pointless, cripples your own DPS and makes spiking impossible... Warriors use weapon switching but not with condition lengtheners...
usual warrior weapons: Vampiric, Zealous, Elemental and the last slot depends, Vampiric with different shield, off hand(high energy set), etc

A Leprechaun · May 05, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

In PvE [conjure flame] + [Strength of honor] + [Hundred Blades] + [Sun and moon slash] = Lots of Big Numbers!!!

In PvP conjure is used for a reason, I think its better, unless you have no energy worries whatsoever.

~A Leprechaun~

Thizzle · May 07, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

The time that conjure lasts outweighs the recharge time unless the enchantment is stripped. The -1 energy regeneration from Strength and Honor also isn't a downside if your using an adrenaline based build. My personal choice is conjure.

Jam Jar · May 08, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

In PvE [conjure flame] + [Strength of honor] + [Hundred Blades] + [Sun and moon slash] + Lots of Big Numbers!!!

In PvP conjure is used for a reason, I think its better, unless you have no energy worries whatsoever.

~A Leprechaun~

So basically that's a W/Mo/E. Awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

S&H is only worth it on a smiter hero, prefferably Me/Mo
otherwise conjure is just better for both PvP and PvE
as for weapon swapping, changing from Crippling->Cruel->Vampiric is just pointless, cripples your own DPS and makes spiking impossible... Warriors use weapon switching but not with condition lengtheners...
usual warrior weapons: Vampiric, Zealous, Elemental and the last slot depends, Vampiric with different shield, off hand(high energy set), etc

Eh... S&H only works in Melee :O.

zling · May 08, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

So basically that's a W/Mo/E. Awesome.

Eh... S&H only works in Melee :O.

rofl 2 Jam Jar
every heard of casting on ALLIES?
Strength and Honor is "target ally" not just yourself...
same goes for A Leprechaun's comment, the Warrior brings Conjure and a Smiter brings S&H...

Sbljsoda · May 08, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Strength of Honor, in my opinion is better. There are a decent amount of enchantment removals in AB from the mesmer shrines, and lots of mesmers / necros these days carry at least one sort of enchantment removal. If you get conjure removed, you're done. Wait 45 seconds for another chance. Strength of Honor removed? Slap it back on.

Winterclaw · May 08, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

But that begs the question if a warrior bringing an enchant like this into AB in the first place. Shouldn't you be putting 12 points into your weapon and 12 into strength? I would say yes unless I'm just messing around.

Leperchan, your build is missing another player casting Great Dwarf's weapon on you.

Jam Jar · May 08, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

rofl 2 Jam Jar
every heard of casting on ALLIES?
Strength and Honor is "target ally" not just yourself...
same goes for A Leprechaun's comment, the Warrior brings Conjure and a Smiter brings S&H...

Oops

As for my opinion with SoH and Conjure, I'd have to say Conjure since that regen can bug you :P.